The meeting opens with the passing of the previously discussed new Building and Zoning Fee.

The making of the 2011 Preble County budget is essentially the subject of the rest of this meeting.  Looming over all county government in Ohio is the knowledge that the state faces an estimated $8,000,000,000 or so deficit that needs to be closed.  The suspicion is that the state will not find a bunch of valuable rare coins or win multiple Mega Million drawings in the near future. As a result, the fear is of a cut in state spending and funding that will impact local government (shock).  To start things off, readers should be made aware that the Preble County Commissioners claim to have earlier sent out a letter requesting that budgets reflect no raises to employees.  Much like travelling an Interstate and encountering a “Slower Traffic Keep Right” sign, some must have felt the letter and request meant everybody but them.  To add another dimension to the making of this sausage posing as a budget, there are departments that have funding streams other than money appropriated from the Preble County General Fund.  The day’s discussions will leave the impression that some elected officials (think Clerk of Courts) are adept at playing the additional funding streams to their advantage.

As tempting and worthy a target as the department heads who ignored the Commission request to “hold the line” are, at least part of the blame falls on the Auditor who yearly states hope for end of the year balances that are revealed as low ball fallacy by the time budgets are being prepared.  In my mind, the Commission would be better served by stating a higher desired figure for carry over and not meeting it than having an often stated Auditor figure repeated all year long that will obviously be exceeded as the department heads contemplate next year.  Seriously, if you know or strongly expect State cuts, then you have to know the need for corresponding County cuts, a higher carry over or possibly both.  Some costs (like the county share of employee insurance) are going up, some employees are unionized (a good bit of the Sheriff’s Department) and are due contractual pay raises through the first six months.

I do have one other question on this process with regard to the Clerk of Courts Office. Unless Chris Day’s wife no longer works for Chris Washington, why has he not recused himself from any discussion on the subject?

I picked up the audio cd for the Monday, November 22, 2010, Preble County Commission meeting just before 4:00 p.m. on Wednesday the 24^th.  At the time, the Commissioners were still meeting and as a result this is the only cd I have for the week of Thanksgiving and that by itself may be cause for additional celebration.  While a good bit more of this meeting was transcribed than usual, I still recommend listening to the audio for a better understanding of what was said and how it was meant. The use of headphones may help with hearing what is said.

Preble County, Ohio

County Commissioners

November 22,  2010

Meeting audio and review

Three Commissioners in attendance

File 1

I. OPEN MEETING

II. CALL OF ROLL

III. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE

IV. PRAYER

V. PUBLIC COMMENTS

VI. APPROVAL OF MINUTES

NOTE RECEIPT & CONSIDER APPROVAL BY SIGNING THE JOURNALIZATION & NOTE RECEIPT OF THE CD RECORDATION BOTH AS THE OFFICIAL MINUTES FOR THE NOVEMBER 19TH SPECIAL SESSION MEETING

End 2.40 minute mark on CD – 628kb

File 2

9:00 A.M. – PUBLIC HEARING #2 CON’T – BLDG & ZONING FEE SCHEDULE AMENDMENT

A. CONSIDER APPROVAL OF RES. #580-10-147

RE: MODIFYING THE BUILDING & ZONING FEE SCHEDULES TO BE EFFECTIVE JANUARY 1, 2011

4 minute mark     Commissioner Bob Stonecash – I think we have decided that we are going to do the registration fee so that we have an idea of who is working in the county.

Commissioner David Wesler – This is for protection, protection of the citizens.

Bond requirement dropped must have liability insurance and workers compensation.

7  minute mark     Commissioner Chris Day – You do understand that both residential and commercial will be handled out of this building.

9  minute mark     Hearing closed.

Ordinance #580 approved

11 minute mark on cd  

8.23 minutes –  1.92 MB

File 3

VIII. FINANCIAL CONSIDERATIONS

A. CONSIDER APPROVAL OF RES. #589-10-147

RE: AUTH. PAYMENT – SHERIFF ($587.50); CHILD. SVS. ($33,746.00); AUDITOR

($1,620.00); REA ($930.00); RECYCLING ($294.51; $724.00; $297.00)

B. CONSIDER APPROVAL OF RES. #590-10-147

RE: TRANSFER OF FUNDS – VARIOUS DEPTS.

C. CONSIDER APPROVAL OF RES. #591-10-147

RE: SUPPLE. APPROP. – PUBLIC HEALTH INFRASTRUCTURE ($15,200.00)

14.3  minute mark     IX. CORRESPONDENCE & REPORTS

A. NOTE RECEIPT OF & CONSIDER APPROVAL OF A LEGAL AD, BID SPECS & BID FORM

RE: 2011 AGGREGATE BID

B. NOTE RECEIPT OF & CONSIDER APPROVAL OF A LEGAL AD

RE: ZONING CASE #1283 TO BE HEARD ON DECEMBER 15, 2010

C. NOTE RECEIPT OF A COURT ORDER FROM JUDGE DUES, JUV. CT.

RE: ORDER TO AUDITOR TO TRANSFER FUNDS FROM PROBATE CT. SPECIAL PROJECTS TO JUV. CT. – MAGISTRATE SPECIAL PROJECTS

16.5  minute mark     AGREEMENTS & CONTRACTS

A. NOTE RECEIPT OF & CONSIDER APPROVAL BY SIGNING A CHANGE ORDER

RE: CHANGE ORDER #1 TO GRATIS SOUTH ST. WAERLINE IMPROVEMENTS AGREEMENT W/ C.A. SHINDELDECKER & SONS – $6,625.00 – FY09 CDBG

B. NOTE RECEIPT OF & CONSIDER APPROVAL BY SIGNING AN AGREEMENT

RE: RESURFACING PRICE’S CREEK BRIDGE AGREEMENT W/ WAGNER PAVING, INC. – $17,050.00 – ENGINEER

18.1 minute mark     TRAVEL REQUESTS

NOTE RECEIPT & CONSIDER APPROVAL OF THE FOLLOWING TRAVEL REQUESTS:

A. RES. #592-10-147 – STEVE SIMMONS & KYLE CROSS – ENG.  Cost not to exceed $1,035.98

B. RES. #593-10-147 – CAPT. K.D. MILLER – SHERIFF FOJ  Cost not to exceed $625

C. RES. #594-10-147 – DEPUTY TERRY SNOWDEN – SHERIFF FOJ   Cost not to exceed $625

D. RES. #595-10-147 – SHERIFF MIKE SIMPSON – SHERIFF FOJ  Cost not to exceed $625

20.4  minute mark     Commissioner Day – Didn't Terry retire?

Commissioner Stonecash – He was.

Commissioner Day – He must be back huh?

Commissioner Stonecash – I think he may.

Commissioner Wesler – He hired him back part time.

Commissioner Day – Oh, I didn't know that.

20.75 minute mark on cd  

9.48 minutes –  2.24 MB

File 4

Commissioner Stonecash – Connie, what else do you have here today?

Connie – revised spreadsheet from the budget.

24.5  minute mark     Commissioner Stonecash – I have a question that I…most departments or some departments have requested increases. Do we have a blanket statement on that? Or do we consider some and not others?  Open for suggestions, I just have trouble with.

Both courts held the line.

The Recorder asked for Pam getting an increase.

Commissioner Stonecash – Pam got a real nice increase when Jeannie became Recorder and at that time nobody else was getting increases. Is that correct? So I don't know how we could consider another increase.

31  minute mark     Commissioner Stonecash – If we are going to hold with our request then we say no raises. Is that fair?  You with us?

There is an obvious pause on the part of the other two commissioners.

Commissioner Day –  mmmhh

Commissioner Stonecash – Ok

Commissioner Day –  I'm listening.

Commissioner Stonecash – You in agreement?

Commissioner Wesler – Yeah I ahh ahm the only one that asterisk beside it I guess is Veterans Services. There's been times when we've laid the law down and said no increases and then there have been times when we've said you uses x amount you're only using 90% of what you could use and for the Board it is a very very small increase and what was it 3% for the others? I mean that is one area that they could if you understand what I am saying is they are a little bit different than some of the other departments. A lot of times that is just an argument you don't want to fight with. I will say that even though a lot of these people put in pay increases – everybody everybody has done a wonderful job of doing more with less and working harder than ever before and I think that is exactly what the people expect. You and I and Chris have talked about the private industry before and how they approach this. A lot of times they look at government and no matter how good or bad it is they get increases every year and you know that is not the case with us. So..we try and hold the line the best we can and I think we have done a wonderful job. I think it was all three of us that and the rest of the people have not had pay increases in several years and as we've said before we're just luck we have a jobs and everybody else should be happy that they have their job. That they do get health insurance if they choose.

33.75  minute mark     Commissioner Stonecash – If you want to look at — & — wages, I don't know that they could go out in industry and get that. … so that is the answer.

Connie – no increases in any General Fund Department?

Commissioner Stonecash – That is what we are saying, that is what we asked for. Do you guys agree or disagree?  You are studying the ceiling pretty hard.

Commissioner Day –  Oh, I am just going back through trying to

Commissioner Stonecash – That is what our letter stated.

Commissioner Day – Go through my notes here.

Commissioner Wesler – Well Bob, regardless put an asterisk behind Veterans Services because there is going to be a lot of other agencies here outside the General Fund that will be giving pay increases. Whether we like it or not it there dollars.

Connie – What for General Fund employees?

Commissioner Wesler – I'm talking like the Engineer's Department. We can refrain and ask him not to but it will happen, it has happened before. I think what Connie is referring to is when a General Fund Department has an outside fund that they can also draw from.

Connie – There is a couple like that.

41 minute mark on cd  

20.15 minutes –  4.63 MB

File 5

46  minute mark     talk of court order…

48.1  minute mark     Commissioner Stonecash – From what we are saying 561736 is not a figure we want to live with, is that correct.

Connie – 561736 is the 2010 appropriations

Commissioner Stonecash – And I am asking these fine gentleman if that should be reduced.  Extended pause with no answer. Should we go back to 2009 appropriations?

More silence

Commissioner Day – slight chuckle.

Connie – on 2009 also having Magistrate and not just Penny Morten sp??

49.25  minute mark     Commissioner Stonecash – Well due to the fact the Penny is retired and he is planning on adding two part timers , can we keep that at 561736.41?  

50.5  minute mark    Commissioner Day – I guess the entire salary for Penny was left in there. Am I correct on that?

1 hr. minute mark on cd  

19 minutes –  4.35 MB

File 6

1 hr. 0 minute mark     Commissioner Wesler – Is it possible that Juvenile Court could use some of that money to help out the Probate Court? Is that possible Connie?

Connie – … that might be an option I am not certain. (garbled) purchase a copier out of Juvenile Courts budget.

Commissioner Wesler – That's at least one idea.

1 hr. 1 minute mark     Commissioner Day – You're saying using the money he's got left over to purchase a copier. Is that what you said David?

Commissioner Wesler – mmmm (yes)

1 hr. 2.75  minute mark     Connie has enough in another account for the purchase of a copier this year.

1 hr. 4  minute mark     Clerk of Courts discussion

1 hr. 13 minute mark     Tax Map discussion – ORC – responsibility for funding falls to Commissioners.

1 hr. 17 minute mark     Sheriff's Budget

Connie – Sheriff is requesting 168,269 for his budget.

Commissioner Stonecash – How much ahh, I want to remind everybody that we did increase the Sheriff's budget last year. Midyear by hiring a dispatcher, of which little publicity was brought forth about that so that people are unaware I guess should note that the Sheriff's budget did go up in mid year.  

1 hr. 19.75  minute mark     Commissioner Stonecash – The Sheriff wants $168,000 more correct?

Connie – Correct

Commissioner Day – Well the ahh the administrative salaries is only through the –

1 hr. 20 minute mark on cd  

20 minutes –  4.58 MB

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File 7

– first part of the year and so there could be another depending on what is negotiated another 24 – $25,000.

Connie – Correct

Commissioner Day –  That could be tacked on to this midyear, is that correct?

Connie – That is correct. That is what my notes indicated.

1 hr.  21.5  minute mark     Commissioner Stonecash – I will note that Preble County has been the last couple years very well protected. In fact in fact have two deputies on the road which is all we ever had I believe. So, I don't think road patrols are decreased

1 hr.  22.25  minute mark     Commissioner Day –  I'm lookin at his letter the first part of this 02 – 03 – 04 is pay raises for the four girls in the office and a detective.

Connie – Correct

Commissioner Day –  To the tune of almost $38,000, $37,881. Is that correct, do I understand that correctly?

Connie – asked for an additional $4000 to replace some equipment.

Commissioner Day –  He's lookin at a dollar an hour for all three?

Commissioner Stonecash – mmm (yes)

Commissioner Day – reports increase is actually $145,308.

Connie – confirms

1 hr.  33  minute mark     Commissioner Stonecash – What is there to discuss? We just turned down any other requests for raises. So now for a different department are we going to change our tune?

Commissioner Day – Ok just out of curiosity ahm

Commissioner Stonecash – I sympathize with the fact that they are haven't has a raise in three years and as we pointed out many other people within the courthouse haven't had a raise either. People are doing without if you will whole staff. Yes, I know the detective positions went away. The fact remains still that we don't know how much money is going to be withheld from the state for us. So at this time we cannot expend a lot of money. Is that a correct statement or so what is the discussion here? Tell me guys.

1 hr.  34.5  minute mark     Connie – So you are saying, no detective no increase for the non-bargaining?

Commissioner Stonecash – That is what we did with everybody else. I mean I think they do a wonderful job. I look around and Fairboard just cut their place by 12 I think. Montgomery County has reduced reasonably…. and here we are considering a $145,000 increase, now is that good fiscal management?

Laughter from other two commissioners.

Commissioner Stonecash – I mean on our part. On our part, tell it like it is boys.

Commissioner Day – laughing  Ok

Commissioner Wesler – Good fiscal management ahhm yeah I would agree with you.

1 hr.  36.75  minute mark    Commissioner Wesler – Bob I wish to remain consistent unless we got some of those asterisk still to talk about but yes I know the ladies out there do a wonderful job and everybody does deserve and increase but we just absolutely can't at this time. So I to remain consistent like everybody else, I say no pay increases. However, if I would vote to hire one more person in one other office it would be a detective and I know I said that earlier this year but I still agree with that and exactly with what Mike said about a lot of the people are getting out that have drug habits and drug problems but I would agree that I would prefer to have a detective at least one out there. But at this moment you know what we did ask for and ahh so I agree with you on that. The bargaining unit obviously their going to get their pay raises the first six months and the bi-six isn't even in there because we don't know what it is going to be.

1 hr.  36.75  minute mark   Commissioner Stonecash – … there are too many problems around the area regarding money and we have done a good job to this point and that by hiring a dispatcher increased that budget by what? 50 for this year it will increase by $50,000.

Connie – by hiring a Dispatcher?

Commissioner Stonecash – Yeah…. A 1OO Dispatcher salary is $49,456. So we did increase his budget by $50,000. Which largely goes unnoticed by almost everybody. All the things that we don't want to talk about, all we ever want to talk about is what has been cut. We did in the best interest of the people of Preble County increase his budget by 50 grand already. The Commissioners did hire a Dispatcher last summer at the Sheriff's request.

1 hr. 40 minute mark on cd  

20 minutes –  4.58MB

File 8

1 hr.  40.25 minute mark   Commissioner Day – If you go gasoline an additional $6,500, what are your thoughts on that?

Extended further discussion on Sheriff Department budget.

1 hr.  47.25 minute mark   Connie – He has two people retiring next year.

Commissioner Day – One out of dispatch and one out of jail. Joe Renner and ahh

Connie – I didn't get the Dispatcher's name.

Commissioner Day – Was it Smith?

Commissioner Wesler – No Madigan

1 hr.  49 minute mark   Commissioner Stonecash – The sad part for the girls is everybody else up there is getting raises and they're not. That doesn't hardly seem fair. They work just as

2 hr.  0 minute mark on cd  

20 minutes –  4.58MB

File 9

Commissioner Day – on discrepancies of pay scale throughout the county departments.

Further discussion on cutbacks throughout the area and state with regard to Sheriff's department and law enforcement budgets.

2 hr.  7 minute mark    Commissioner Day – …Well the way I am looking at it right now is taking the one's that we know have to keep in here, which leaves about six of these that we are discussing, in the red. But the ones we know, that is already almost a $183,000 increase.

Commissioner Stonecash – And that is not taking into consideration the Sheriff's request. Is that correct? That would be correct.

Commissioner Day – Yes

2 hr.  11  minute mark    Commissioner Day – We've got the Clerk of Courts and the Sheriff's yet to do then.

More discussion on Sheriff's budget.

2 hr.  20 minute mark on cd  

20 minutes –  4.58MB

File 10

2 hr.  24  minute mark    Back in session after RECESS.

Further discussion on letter requesting no increases. Possibly reconsider in the second half of year but it is doubtful.

2 hr.  26.5 minute mark    Clerk of Courts discussion.  

Then why not cut his funding? Does Chris Day's wife still work for Chris Washington? If so then why is he part of this discussion?

2 hr.  34.25 minute mark    Question on whether the Clerk of Courts can issue a court order.

Discussion involves Marie and part of her money is being paid out of Certificate of Title.

2 hr.  37.5  minute mark   Commissioner Wesler – You know what? He is still paying overtime to some of his salaries and we told him you remember about a year ago to not do that. And he told us that no he couldn't get the work done so he was going to continue to do that. And so a lot of them already get overtime anyway. An I am sorry it just looks like a deliberate attempt to ..if you don't give me what I want, I am going to cost you more money.

Commissioner Stonecash – That's the way it has been the two years that I have been sitting in this chair.

Commissioner Wesler – I don't know that he twisted our arm that hard then it was more or less I got to get my work done. My point is he is getting his work done now, the way he is going. I mean those ladies up there do work hard, I am not saying that, I am saying; How are we going to stay as consistent with our "No raises in the General Fund"? How are we going to stay as consistent as we can be? I'm reminded and you're talking about we got to do that, I am reminded of a county on the other side of the state where the commissioners told the Sheriff; You've got to cut your budget you've got to budget. He didn't, he kept right on going and come October 1 they laid everybody of except for him because he ran out of money. So we've talked about this enough.  You guys, you've heard my point and   

Commissioner Stonecash – I still go back to which way is the least expensive. Yes, we've also said no raises so I doing some talking out of both sides of my mouth I think…. no raises…… I think it is going to cost the county money.

Commissioner Wesler – Just to be fair, Chris doesn't believe that way. Just to be fair.

2 hr.  40 minute mark on cd  

20 minutes –  4.58MB

File 11

2 hr.  40.5  minute mark   Commissioner Day – Ahh no I don't, I just I go back to what Bob said what is going to be best as we say we are talking out of both sides of our mouth because we are looking at the budget from one side and we are looking at what he is wanting to do on the other side. I understand what you are saying David but I don't totally disagree with you. But I am looking at if we are going to hold the line or yeah hold the line and make a point it is going to cost us more money I am afraid, out of the General Fund. And unfortunately it goes back to we discussed earlier we've got no control over the employees, that is his call however he wants to, whatever he wants to do with them however he wants to move them around. That's his call.

Commissioner Wesler  – And Chris I do understand your position to but what if something happens and we can't do this next year. What prevents him from being able to do the very same thing with another employee and say I want a .50 cent raise and I am going to move this person here and if you don't give it to me I am going to do this.  

Commissioner Stonecash – It all comes down to this he is wanting for a $6000 increase in his budget is that correct?

Commissioner Day – That is just for computers.

Connie – Computer.

Commissioner Day – That has nothing to do with ( garbled )

Commissioner Stonecash – That's ok. It all comes back to his budget was $234,204 in 2010 is that correct?

Connie – Correct.

Commissioner Stonecash – So are we saying that is what we want to set it this year?

Commissioner Wesler – I don't know. What side of your mouth are you talking out of now?

Commissioner Day – laughing

Commissioner Stonecash – I'm just trying to get

Commissioner Wesler – Make some head way here?

Commissioner Stonecash – Get ahh you two guys to see where you want to go.

Commissioner Wesler – Why don't we move on and talk about a different one then?

2 hr.  42.75  minute mark   Commissioner Stonecash – We could discuss this. Good Ok.

Connie – garbled move on?

Commissioner Stonecash – yeah

Connie – as it relates to (garbled) that was the last one. The Auditor's going to be taking out of REA which is going to affect General Fund.

Commissioner Stonecash – If and when we decide on GIS.

Connie – Well that is going to be the next budget here.

Commissioner Stonecash – Does that reduce her appropriations?

Connie – To the General Fund? No. That increases the bottom line of General Fund if we take

Commissioner Stonecash – I am aware of that.

Connie -Yeah

Commissioner Stonecash – Ok. It is a win win situation for her. Ok what do you want to talk about?

Connie – I have direction on Board of Elections, I have direction on Building Maintenance, I have already asked the Sheriff. Waiting on direction on Clerk of Courts.

Commissioner Stonecash – Are we

Commissioner Wesler – Invite Chris down and ask him

Commissioner Stonecash – Are we ahh unified on the Sheriff's that there will there's no raises for people that are not in the union?

Connie – He is providing me with some new figures to exclude all of his non-union employees and detective

Commissioner Stonecash – Taking the detective out also

Connie – Taking the detective out and request for us to provide him with new salary line item with.. to take all of his non-union employees $1 increase plus the detective position out.

2 hr.  45  minute mark   and he said he would email me the reduction figures today. I do have good news that, well I did take with the judge and he did he would be interested in purchasing a copier this year.

Commissioner Stonecash – Ok

Connie – And he is also working on his reducing his juvenile court budget by $1,370.03. Did you say you wanted to bring Chris down?

Commissioner Day – What else do we got to discuss?

Commissioner Stonecash –  That is pretty much it isn't it?

Connie – That is pretty much it until we see what the Sheriff's figures are like. Ahh

Commissioner Day – What about the

Connie – We do need to go into EXECUTIVE SESSION TO DISCUSS THE EMPLOYMENT OF A PUBLIC EMPLOYEE

2 hr.  46.25  minute mark   Commissioner Day – move to go into Executive Session for the discussion of possible employment of a county employee.

EXECUTIVE SESSION TO DISCUSS THE EMPLOYMENT OF A PUBLIC EMPLOYEE

Out of session, no action taken.

Connie – one more thing. Ok you know we have already posted externally for I believe a service worker 1 and 2 and think that is all we've posted for.  Well since we posted there has been another resignation out at Children's Services out at JFS and so now Becky asked me if we can post for two more full time social workers and one part time social worker 2.

Commissioner Stonecash –  Because one person has resigned?

Connie – Well I guess there was other openings. Ok anyway, since we are already in the motion of posting, no applications have been reviewed, the time frame is still existing. I don't believe I want to place more help wanted ads in front of you, she can just if it is ok with the Board select from the applications she is currently going to receive, this go around. Is that alright with the Board?

Commissioner Stonecash –  That would be the most efficient.

Connie – Now she has asked me this same question before but they had already awarded the job and once we have reviewed and awarded the job we go through this process again. So that is reason if we haven't reviewed applications and the deadline hasn't came around.

Commissioner Stonecash –  Well it is not a problem then is it?

Connie – It shouldn't be a problem right. Right, that is all I needed.

Commissioner Stonecash –  Move to adjourn.

ADJOURN

2 hr. 48.75 minute mark on cd  

8.45 minutes –  2 MB